The Dick Cavett Show: Television’s Classiest Talk Show Host

Dick Cavett made a career of being a talk show host. He began on ABC in March of 1968 and ended on TCM in 2007. In between, he showed up during the day, in prime time, late at night, on PBS, in syndication, and on CNBC. The Dick Cavett Show seems to refer to all the shows as a collected whole, so that’s how I will present it in my blog.

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Photo: chicagotribune.com

If you have ever seen Cavett in action, he has such a smooth, polite manner that sometimes you forget he may be asking an invasive question. Some of the most memorable shows were conversations with Christine Jorgenson (who walked off the show in 1968); Groucho Marx (1969); Jimi Hendrix (1969); The Woodstock Show (1969); Eric Clapton (1970); Alfred Lunt, Lynn Fontanne and Noel Coward (1970); Orson Welles (1970); Salvador Dali (1971); John Kerry debating on Vietnam (1971); Watergate and Beyond (1974); Angela Davis (1972); Jackie Robinson (1972); Marlon Brando (1973); Katharine Hepburn (1973); Carol Burnett (1974); and  Mohammad Ali (several shows). As you can see, in addition to entertainers, Cavett interviewed influential authors, politicians, athletes, and newsmakers.

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Talking to the Great One: Ali Photo: latimes.com

Cavett often had several guests on each show, but sometimes he devoted the entire night to one person such as Laurence Olivier, Judy Garland, Bette Davis, Janis Joplin, Alfred Hitchcock, Fred Astaire, Gloria Swanson, Lucille Ball, Bob Hope, and David Bowie.

Politics were often covered by Cavett, and over the years, he interviewed many including political guests including Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward, Walter Cronkite, John Ehrlichman, John Dean, Gerald Ford, Barry Goldwater, Henry Kissinger, and G. Gordon Liddy.

In various interviews of his own, Cavett mentioned different shows that were memorable or brought in a lot of mail. Early in the show’s history, Cavett was interviewing Peter Falk, Ben Gazzara, and John Cassavetes about a movie they were in. Cassavetes was so drunk and incoherent, Cavett walked off the stage.

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Laughing with Katharine Hepburn Photo: dangerousminds.com

Georgia governor Lester Maddox appeared in a panel with Truman Capote and Jim Brown about segregation. Cavett made a reference to “bigots” who supported Maddox. When Maddox demanded an apology, Cavett apologized to Georgians who supported him without being a bigot. Maddox left the studio. However, later Maddox relented and made another appearance, and Cavett walked off the set as a joke.

One memorable episode was something no host wants to encounter. Publisher J. I. Rodale was on the show. Cavett was talking to another guest when Rodale seemed to be snoring, but everyone soon realized something was wrong. He actually died there on the set. The audience didn’t even realize it until Cavett called for a doctor. The program was taped but not aired.

Director Ingmar Bergman did few television interviews and no US interviews, but he made an exception for Dick Cavett.

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With David Bowie Photo: nostalgiacentral.com

So, what types of things might you have learned from Cavett’s show? Well, Hitchcock explained how some of his most ingenious special effects worked.  Gale Sayers talked about the movie Brian’s Song (maybe he could have given me a hint how not to cry every single time I see the movie.).  BB King revealed what his name stands for. Jack Benny demonstrated how to play the violin. Melba Moore told what it was like to open at the Apollo Theater. James Garner explained how he accidentally broke co-star Doris Day’s ribs, and Jacques Cousteau discussed the mystery of manatees.

And finally, I had to find out who was Cavett’s favorite interview, and who were the ones that got away? The two he never got to interview but always wished he had was an easier answer to find: Cary Grant and Frank Sinatra.

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Photo: WBUR

It was a lot harder to answer the first question.  If you read the other three blogs in this series, you know the other talk show hosts (Mike Douglas, Phil Donahue, and Tom Snyder) began careers in Ohio. I was hoping to find an Ohio link for Dick, and that’s when I found the answer to my question of his favorite interviewee.  Cavett landed in Cleveland at the end of his career, which seems fitting since he is ending this series.

He was talking about an upcoming show at The Nightclub in Cleveland and mentioned Jack Paar was his mentor. (Cavett wrote for The Tonight Show when Paar hosted it, and Paar began his career in Canton, Ohio; I know it’s one coincidence after another.) Jack told him he didn’t need humor, singing, or anything except a desire to have a conversation. Then Cavett said, “I watch clips from the shows when I’m invited to give a talk and they show them, and I’m always surprised by the number of little delightful moments I’ve forgotten. I watched a moment the other night when Groucho was on the show with [zoologist] Jim Fowler. And Fowler brought a sloth on the stage, and Groucho said, ‘That’s the lousiest-looking dog I’ve ever seen.’ I’d forgotten that. That was the same night Groucho proposed marriage to Truman Capote. . . .’I love to do Q&A with the audience, but there’s only one forbidden question, and it doesn’t have anything to do with sex or politics,’ he said. ‘The forbidden question is, Who has been your most interesting guest?’ . . . But then he went on to say that ‘If pushed to the wall, I have to admit that Groucho was the guest who meant the most to me.’ Cavett said that ‘In a letter from Miriam, Groucho’s daughter, she wrote, ‘My father thought the world of you.’ It gets me even now when I say that out loud.’”

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The unique Groucho Marx Photo: pinterest.com

In 2005 several box sets were released of some of Cavett’s shows. They are collected by theme of the interviewee such as The Rock Icons, etc. The network Decades, which recently went off the air, broadcast these shows also. Before the network was disbanded, I was able to watch about ten of these episodes, and they were as good as I had hoped for.

I have really enjoyed reviewing these talk show hosts and their guest interviews this month.  It makes me want to invite a bunch of friends over, one at a time, for coffee and conversation.  Just be forewarned, if I invite you over, I may have a list of questions I’ll want to be asking you.

Tom Snyder Brought Us Tomorrow Tonight

As we continue learning about popular talk shows of the past, today we look at one that was on really, really late: Tomorrow with Tom Snyder.

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Photo: postindependent.com

Often labeled as The Tomorrow Show, this program was on NBC from 1973-1982. After the light chatting and exchange of humorous stories on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, you could hear Snyder having in-depth conversations with his guests. He was not afraid to ask the hard-hitting questions and do a bit of interrogation with the person in the chair across from him.

This was back when everyone smoked on television. Turn on Match Game and you see smoke rising from almost every celebrity’s cubicle, catch an episode of The Andy Griffith Show and you might see Andy puffing away, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble advertised cigarettes, and the quintessential memory of Tom Snyder is him sitting in the chair, with a cigarette.

Photo: pinterest.com

Dan Aykroyd did a great impression of him on several Saturday Night Live episodes. Snyder’s catch phrase was “Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air.” Snyder was easy and tough to portray. He did not have the humor of Carson, the intelligence of Paar or the wit of Steve Allen, but his enthusiasm was contagious. His lack of polished and prepared questions often led to some incredible celebrity insights.

Dan Akroyd’s version of Snyder Photo: pinterest.com

You never knew what you were in for when you turned on this show. Perhaps it was an interview with Harlan Elison, Elvis Costello, John Lennon, Ayn Rand, Johnny Rotten of The Sex Pistols, Kiss with an obviously drunk Ace Frehley being corralled by the rest of the band members, or one of the most disturbing, Charles Manson.

Trying to Interview Charles Manson Photo: rollingstone.com

One of the most fun shows was his interview with Disney animator Ward Kimball discussing his full-size and toy train collections. I wish I could see the show from April 4, 1978 when he interviewed George Fenneman, Harry von Zell, Don Wilson, and John Reed King, several of the most amazing announcers ever. (I have done blogs on Fenneman, von Zell with the Burns and Allen Show, and Wilson; I was not familiar with King but he hosted a lot of television and radio games shows, but I’m sorry to say I did not recognize any of the titles.)

A few other shows that looked interesting included his interview with Alfred Hitchcock about his fifty-year film career; his discussion with producer-creator Gene Roddenberry, actors DeForest Kelley, James Doohan, Walter Koenig and convention organizer Al Schuster about Star Trek; and his talk with singers Ella Mae Morse, Margaret Whiting, Lina Romay, and Kay Starr about life in the big-band era.

With favorite guest John Lennon Photo: wikipedia.com

Snyder often cited his most embarrassing moment of the show as his interview with Meat Loaf, whose real name is Marvin Lee Aday. Snyder said for the first ten minutes of the interview, he referred to the singer as “Meatball.”

When the ratings began to decline, the network opted to put David Letterman in the 1:30 EST slot and offered Snyder the 2:30 spot which he declined.

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Kiss Photo: fanpop.com

I’m not sure if it was Snyder’s call or the network’s but he never had an original theme song. He started with “Love’s Theme” by the Love Unlimited Orchestra, used Dylan’s “Lay Lady Lay” for a time, and later used “Love is the Message” by T.S.O.P. (The Sound of Philadelphia).

Snyder was born in 1936 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Although he had a life-long love of radio, his plan was to study medicine. Eventually, he switched his major to journalism and was hired as a radio reporter at WRIT in Milwaukee.

In the 1960s Snyder transitioned to television, and one of his jobs was where else but Cleveland, Ohio. (If you read all my blogs this month, you’ll see Mike Douglas and Phil Donahue also started tv careers in Ohio.)

In 1970, Snyder moved to Los Angeles from Philadelphia to anchor the 6 pm newscast. He continued to broadcast the news along with the Tomorrow show. When the show was cancelled, he moved back to New York to continue his news career with ABC. He finished his career with ABC back in Los Angeles where he returned in 1985.

5 Tom Snyder Clips That Will Make You Wish We Still Had "The Tomorrow Show"  - Legacy.com
Photo: legacy.com

Don’t get me wrong—I love Jimmy Fallon, and he has some fascinating guests, but I miss real conversations because it’s hard to get to true portrayals of someone in a ten-minute chat. I don’t know if viewers would be willing to sit through an hour-long interview these days; everyone wants the quick clips, but it’s like forgoing reading The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn to read the cliff notes. You might get the highlights but you miss the small pleasures and the “aha moments.” I guess I miss “aha moments.”

The Boundless Enthusiasm of The Phil Donahue Show

Last week we learned a bit about The Mike Douglas Show which debuted in Cleveland.  Today we get the back story on The Phil Donahue Show which also started in Ohio, in Dayton, in 1967. In 1970 it went into syndication and was seen weekdays until 1996.

Photo: daytonarenaproject.com

Donahue was a reporter at WLWD and when the Johnny Gilbert Show ended, Phil got his chance to host his own show. In 1974, Phil moved his show to Chicago. In 1985 He moved to 30 Rockefeller Plaza in New York City.

Photo: columbiajournalismreview.com

Donahue described himself as “the Cal Ripken” of television hosts. With interviews every weekday for more than a decade, about 7000 total, it’s hard to argue with him. Donahue was interested less in celebrities and more about investigative-type stories and popular issues. He covered topics such as interracial marriages, homosexuality, bigotry, poverty, drug trafficking, political scandals, cross dressing, the Catholic priest abuse of young boys, and current events. However, he did do interviews with important newsmakers including Ronald Reagan, Nelson Mandela, and Jane Fonda. He shunned tabloid-type stories that Jerry Springer and Geraldo Rivera featured.

with Gloria Steinhem Photo: usatoday.com

In an interview with the Television Academy, Donahue talked about some of his favorite interviews.  He said he enjoyed Gloria Steinhem and the discussion they had about women’s liberation. He said this was an issue he was able to watch from the beginning through its transitions.  (As an aside, I was able to interview Steinhem and later meet her at a university event in Eau Claire, and I understood his description of her charisma and insights.) The eye-opening perspectives he received from Steinhem about the oppression of women pushed him to explore views on homophobia and racism as well. He realized he could make a difference in these matters if others could understand these problems and the people who were bringing life-changing messages. He said he didn’t want the white guys doing all the talking anymore and he gave non-white guys the floor.

Another person he admired was Ralph Nader because he stuck to his guns and continued to fight for what was right when the cameras were off and he was alone.

Photo: wikimediacommons.com

One of the most interesting shows he did was in December of 1985. He was asked to participate in the first people-to-people satellite meeting between the US and the Soviet Union with Vladimir Pozner who had appeared on Nightline with Ted Koppel who recommended him to Donahue. They taped in Seattle and Leningrad. When he asked the Russians where they wanted to visit in the United States, he got the typical responses: Disneyland, Las Vegas, New York City, and then someone said Oxford, Mississippi. Donahue asked why and the person said that it was because one of the world’s best authors, William Faulkner, was from there.  From that point on, the conversations got more interesting and culturally significant.

Photo: nostalgiacentral.com

Donahue realized in the 90s that he could not compete with Oprah and hosted his final episode in September of 1996. His career produced about 7000 shows. Oprah always respected his show and often said, “If there hadn’t been a Phil, there wouldn’t have been a me.”

Photo: walmart.com

He was awarded with his first Emmy in 1977. By 1988 he was the owner of nine Emmys.

Don Grady, best known for playing Rob on My Three Sons, composed the theme music for the show. In 1979, he published an autobiography, Donahue: My Own Story

Although Phil had five children with his first wife, Margaret Cooney, he has been married to Marlo Thomas, daughter of Danny and star of That Girl, since 1980.

Photo: nydailynews.com

I remember watching this show and Donahue was typically right in the middle of the audience running up and down the stairs to get input from his visitors. I think it was literally that bounding enthusiasm that set him apart from the other television hosts during this time. He was more concerned about improving life than improving ratings.

Mr. Hospitality: Mike Douglas Hosted 30,000 Guests

For the month of July we are taking a look at some of the innovative talk shows of the past. With only three channels to choose from in the sixties, almost everyone tuned into The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson.  However, talk shows were also popular during the day.

The Mike Douglas Show began in Cleveland, Ohio in 1961. It had light banter with guests and featured musical performers daily, although more serious interviews were also conducted from time to time.  In 1963, the show was expanded to Pittsburgh, Boston, Baltimore, and San Francisco.

In 1965, the show moved to Philadelphia and went into national syndication that same year. One final move was made in 1978 when it relocated to Hollywood. For 1980, Douglas handed the show over to John Davidson to host. It went through some changes and replaced about one-third of the staff, but the ratings continued to plummet and it was officially cancelled in November of 1981 with more than 6000 shows and 30,000 guests.

Douglas was born in Chicago in 1925 and became a teenage singer, entertaining on the radio and in supper clubs. He sang a lot of big band numbers and became the staff singer at WKY in Oklahoma City before joining the Navy in WWII. He had two hits in the fifties, “Old Lamplighter” and “Ole Buttermilk Sky,” but his career was not going anywhere, so he decided to turn to television.

Photo: eyesofageneration.com

Douglas had a different celebrity co-host every week, and they interviewed a variety of entertainers. The show was very popular and had high ratings.  Douglas had a fun personality .  In 1976, Match Game received higher ratings, so Douglas made an unscheduled appearance on the game show to congratulate Gene Rayburn on having the number 1 daytime show on the air.

Photo: muppetwikifandom.com

I could literally fill pages with the guest stars and musical performers who appeared on the show. Some of the more interesting ones included two-year-old Tiger Woods who showed off his golf swing for Bob Hope and James Stewart.

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Jimmy Stewart, Bob Hope and a very young Tiger Woods Photo: pinterest.com

A Who’s Who listing of guests also included Fred Astaire, Lucille Ball, George Burns, Sid Caesar, Angela Davis, Bette Davis, Judy Garland, Alfred Hitchcock, Malcom X, Mother Teresa, the Muppets, Ralph Nader, Richard Nixon, Vincent Price, and John Wayne.

The “Supreme” music guests Photo: pinterest.com

A variety of musical genres were represented with performers including ABBA, The Beach Boys, The Bee Gees, James Brown, Ray Charles, Cher, Sam Cooke, Electric Light Orchestra, Marvin Gaye, Genesis, The Jacksons, Jefferson Airplane, Elton John, John Lennon with Yoko Ono, The Mills Brothers, The Rolling Stones, Sly and the Family Stone, The Supremes, and Frank Zappa.

With Gene Simmons and Cher Photo: vintage.com

Critics also liked the show. It received its first Emmy in 1967 and would go on to win four more.

Tom Kelly, who co-authored with Douglas on his memoir, revealed why he thought Mike was so successful: “One big key to his great success was he had his ego in check. He always let the guest have the limelight. He was a fine performer. He could sing, he could do comedy, he did it all, but he always gave the guest the spotlight.”

Photo: wikipedia.com

I can remember my mother watching Mike Douglas most days while I played with my toys.  Here we are sixty years later and afternoon talk shows like Ellen DeGeneres and Kelly Clarkson are still going strong thanks to pioneers like Mike Douglas who showed us the classy way to be a host.